Author Topic: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?  (Read 15016 times)

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Offline Oliver

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2011, 04:53:49 PM »
if u encounter large amount of volume of water in your hole... 1st, u are in a wrong way.. remember that japs buried their treasures and coded it with maps.. so they know where to recover it in an easiest way. 2nd, if u think ur in the right way with markers and live pointer... dam it!!! (sand bags etc)
 

gerald

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2011, 08:59:51 PM »
if u encounter large amount of volume of water in your hole... 1st, u are in a wrong way.. remember that japs buried their treasures and coded it with maps.. so they know where to recover it in an easiest way. 2nd, if u think ur in the right way with markers and live pointer... dam it!!! (sand bags etc)
 

Good  Eve  Fellas.

That's  your  opinion brother.

But   why is  it  that  in  a site  that I  have  known  the target  is  recovered  around  36-40 feet  and   the  water  is  very strong.  They even used  2 PUMPS,  the 2 hp  sub-pump  and 1hp  sub-pump.  It's  no joke...   Kasi may actual  recovery  ito..

They even  fail  to recover  the cemented  vault  because  the last  layer  below-->(that  Boracay Sand)  slowly  collapse.

I don't  think they  might  be  wrong  because  the target  is recovered  in the  center  with a little  drifting.
Just my opinion also.


God  Bless,

GE
 :)

Offline Matthew633

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2011, 03:29:30 AM »
Hi sir! we reach the water level of the hole and there is also a presence of alkitran at 11m. The diggers say that they encounter a muddy type of after the sand and alkitran. Is this normal? In your experience does it mean that we reach now the target?

Offline boylara

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2011, 01:24:11 PM »
nope
"So Near Yet So Far"

Offline kimsusan

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 11:25:52 AM »
Hello fellow TH aficionados!

This Topic is quite old but i would like to share anyway relevant information in dealing with water/sand trap through shoring and diving. Please remind me if im off-topic.

Attached picture, hole.jpg,  is my site with two holes with RC cylindrical culvert used for shoring. Both holes are failed missions. My 1st hole(farther right) was a medium-driven project. Method of detection of the target was thru a dowsing stick (paranormal/spiritual verified by at least 4 more mediums) and purportedly validated by an OKM FUture 2003 Rover C GPR. I was new then in TH. it was very costly as it took us 6 months(continuous) to complete and at first we utilized several methods of excavation/recovery before we settled with shoring and diving method. All sorts of obstacles were encountered related to  diving and dredging (have to suck out the soils and others elements to give way to the culvert shoring to sink deeper down) but we never quit until we reached the 48ft(14.4m) target as qualified by the GPR. We found out that at that level it was a mineralised soil so "makunat" (malleable or ductile, not sure of the translation) and hard which my diver initially thought was the object coz our water-jet piercing mechanism(sunda or pantusok) would hardly dig through. thats when i learnt how to dive myself for verification. It's a grayish clay or clay-like mineralised soil that when dried will look like a cement which can be easily be pulverised when smashed. Negative! Not the treausure vault we were expecting. The culvert is already hanging by 6ft by its tip over a hard but malleable, highly-dense clay layer by layer as thick as 2 feet (in between layers are suspected magnetite sands a few inches thick, just a theory) per layer. We're not sure whats still in beneath sO the project was stop for further detection. THats when i started my 2nd hole at the same site.

The prospected target was redetected thru a Molecular Frequency detector. Its the most i can find within my area besides the detectorist have a few finds using this detector, according to him. The detectorist who is an ECE engineer practicing in the USA and an experienced THer himself explained to me about the limitations of GPR with respect to soil conductivity. Despite openly warned by him about the consequences and though hesitant coz its a half scientific-detected project, the 2nd hole(closer-left in hole.jpg) was dug. Same process of digging, shoring, diving and dredging(no pumping out of water) was employed until we reached 22 ft. Knowingly, since i did most of the diving and dredging myself to gain first hand information, that level surfaced the first layer of highly-dense clay beneath water level. Now i was aware that at 22ft (with respect to my site, approximately 16ft below water level) thats the first layer of clay(bluish-gray, malleable). At that point, I theorized that it may not be possible for a less than a tonner or a few more tons of treasure vault to penetrate thru that hard surface of clay. Despite being reluctant we broke thru the 2ft thick clay and next was all sand. Being soft and penetratable, we cleared the path and decided to thrust it with a 20ft long 1/2" GI pipe to reach that 48ft 2nd layer of clay. Again no treasure vault felt. Project terminated after 4 weeks!

Fellow THers, this is a classic example of how frustrating this endeavor cud be for us hunters. Yet as the saying goes "the easiest way to failure is through quiting". No matter how "perfectly" we do our homeworks (history of prospect sites, livepointers, markers and signs, paranormal, scientific, faith, human relation, determination, etc, btw, no maps) there is always something missing in the formula. As far as my experience is concern, I guess there is no sure formula but i believe there are 3 main components of a successful T'hunting orderly named as follows:
1) Accuracy of detection (locate, validate, qualify and quantify with supporting data, information and knowledge for decision making)
2) Process of Recovery/Excavation (choosing the right methodology depending on location ie mountainous, plains, etc)
3) Proper disposal of finds (even Marcos had difficulties selling/disposing his)
Should i was lucky with the accuracy of the detection, i cud have got it in case there was really hidden treasure in my site, but with many other challenges of course.  I guess i did my part well, more or less, on the process of recovery as far as similar projects like mine is concern. Similarly, for water or sand trap, we cud try shoring our hole with rigid structure like culvert for divers to safely dredge out the soil and allow us to go deeper in our diggings. Its a manual cost-effective solution once water level is reach and target prospect is relatively deeper.

Pardon me for this lenghty post. i hope my personal experience wud be useful to other prospective diggers.

more power to all and may all of us succeed in our endeavors.





Offline yamideo

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 11:43:14 AM »
We have lots of bentonite clay deposit in the phils. same components needed for demolition agents but i am not sure about the grade. just my 2 cents.

Sodium bentonite
Sodium bentonite expands when wet, absorbing as much as several times its dry mass in water. Because of its excellent colloidal properties,[1] it is often used in drilling mud for oil and gas wells and for geotechnical and environmental investigations.
The property of swelling also makes sodium bentonite useful as a sealant, especially for the sealing of subsurface disposal systems for spent nuclear fuel[2] and for quarantining metal pollutants of groundwater. Similar uses include making slurry walls, waterproofing of below-grade walls, and forming other impermeable barriers, e.g., to seal off the annulus of a water well, to plug old wells, or to line the base of landfills to prevent migration of leachate. It is also used to form a barrier around newly planted trees to constrain root growth so as to prevent damage to nearby pipes, footpaths and other infrastructure.
Sodium bentonite can also be "sandwiched" between synthetic materials to create geo-synthetic clay liners (GCL) for the aforementioned purposes. This technique allows for more convenient transport and installation, and it greatly reduces the volume of sodium bentonite required.
Various surface modifications to sodium bentonite improve some rheological or sealing performance in geoenviromental applications, for example, the addition of polymers.[3]

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2012, 11:21:56 PM »
Sir Yamideo,
Could you tell us where we could get this type of Bentonite clay?. This might be the answer to my water trap challenge. Right now the water pump is still managing the water inflow/outflow. But it will be nice if we could stop it completely.
Thank you
Victor

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2012, 06:31:13 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I followed the advice of using clay and dam the opening on the side wall with sand bags, up to 14 sand bags layer.. widen the hole where the water and sand trap are coming out and use two 5 hp water pumps.
In essence we were releasing the water and fine layer of sand slowly and negate it's force in the process.
As we widen the hole of the water/sand trap it reveals a huge cavern filled with more fine sand, tunnel and cavity system. so we continue taking out the fine layer of sand in our dig site, about a truck load already.
There is a layer of concrete after this fine layer of sand at 27 feet. The fine layer of sand is about 6 feet thick. Everytime we reached 25 feet level it triggers the water and sand inundating our dig site until we use the sand bagging technique and controlled water flow with our pumps.
We are next to a river approximately 100 yards. We didn't think the water is coming from the river.
Any thoughts from the experts.? I just want to share my experience
Thanks
Victor

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2012, 06:30:15 PM »
Hello Everyone,
For about 3 weeks we were emptying  our dig site of fine sand after each controlled burst of water from the trap.
Finally the  sand trap get emptied and the huge cavern where the sand where contained were now a big cavern.
We decided to fence the entrance/exit opening of the water/sand trap cavern with several layers of bamboo material.
An hour later after we completed the bamboo fence, the whole sand trap cavern start collapsing.. so we decided to wait until the cavern settled on its own, knowing that water will cause more erosion.
A week later the whole cavern collapsed and our bamboo fence hold the rock slides from the cavern.
Good thing we wait for now we have another challenge , more rocks that potentially dangerous to the digging crew..
And now our hole is enormously huge..approximately from 45 feet long by 15 feet wide 25 feet deep to 70 feet long 30 feet wide and depth has to be determine in half of the hole..because the bamboo fence is holding them in place.
We're working on removing all potential rocks slides and in so doing the site reveal more markings, heart shape stones, sleeping turtles, shell (cabibe shape stones) pointing to several positive detector scan .
I took notes of every stone markings and correlate them with deep penetrating radar scan results before we started digging and they are getting exciting because it correspond to above results.
I'm sharing these because I learn that one needs to expect the next results of water/sand trap design by following your instinct and common sense, applying the law of gravity and force of water, timing its burst and deciding corrective measures accordingly.
 I call it a chess game in process and you and your digging crew have to be alert for the next move.
Good hunting guys
Victor

Offline yamideo

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 08:30:12 AM »
Sorry i did not notice your earlier post on where to get bentonite clay. I cannot find my directory of mineral deposits in the philippines but surely we have it at the bureau of mines or DENR. There are several bentonite clay deposites that i saw in different areas here but i cannot recall anymore. I am wondering about your site and signs you have there. Can you post some pictures. Thanks.

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 07:16:39 PM »
Hi Sir Y
I posted some pictures and it disappear in the web..
I will try again next time I have more time..
Victor

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2012, 04:36:07 PM »
Ok I found out why I can't pictures.. my data is over 4000 KB and I don't know how to make it smaller.
I will try until I'm able to do it.
 Meantime I will appreciate any suggesstion
Thanks
Victor

Offline yamideo

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2012, 08:10:44 PM »
if you have microsoft office picture manager program installed open the file with it and click on edit pictures a toolbar will appear on the rightside use change picture size on lower rightside and click on resize (75%, 50% or 25%). there are other programs that can do this. Regards.

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2012, 12:03:02 PM »
Sorry I'm still having issues about downloading pictures from the different internet cafe.
 Can't get it done properly. I'm still learning. It's easier to email but it will be big file that the forum will not accept. I try again next time..very busy with the project
Thanks
Victor

Offline Angelvictory

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Re: TRAPS: How to deal with water and/or sand traps?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 04:56:35 PM »
Ok..I tried again last night and I lost all my data in the computer while downloading them
This time I will figure it out how to recover those pictures.
At this point,. they are just memories ..No need to get upset..
Live and learned till next time.
Victor