Author Topic: Nickel Babbitt  (Read 37185 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MasKara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Nickel Babbitt
« on: August 06, 2009, 09:59:23 PM »
Angel brother,
there is no such thing as nickel babbit in the Philippines this was another sales pitch of Pinoy Fraud and unsuspecting traders (mostly advertising in the internet) E-commerce.

Nickel Babbit actually originated in the US a company put up the processing plant but commercially it did not materialized. The casting form was found it's way in the Philippines, somebody would like to put a plant but also never did go through.
Somehow again Pinoy creativity found its way in the black market and start making rumors of large amount of cache found in Mindanao caves full of Nickel Babbit "XXXX" bars. (4-"X's" is the trade sign in bars) see image below.
Actually this metal is manufactured in several other ways and there is no such thing as nickel babbit manufactured in it's purest form.
They are mixtures of different alloys to suit it's purposed, in different kinds of bearing.

See below references what i mean of the possibility of manufacturing Nickel Babbit in the Philippines. but mostly they are claimed as discoveries like Yam treasure.


Babbitt
refers to a bearing alloy consisting typically of tin, lead, antimony, and copper. "XXXX Nickel" is a trade name for such an alloy that also contains a small percentage of nickel.

Babbit as a bearing material
Isaac Babbitt was issued the first patent for an alloy that was excellent for making bearings. The word Babbitt has been applied to many alloys involving similar substituents. Babbitts easily change their shape to conform to bearing shafts and will retain a lubricated surface film. Particulate matter not transported away by the lubricant is embedded harmlessly in the sub-surface. This is due to its hard/soft composition. Babbitts high in tin content, consist of a relatively soft, solid matrix of tin in which are distributed hard copper-tin and tin-antimony cuboids. Babbits are often employed as a thin surface coating to obtain the advantage of their good rubbing characteristics.

Babbitt metal, also called white metal, is an alloy used to provide the bearing surface in a plain bearing.

It was invented in 1839 by Isaac Babbitt[1] in Taunton, Massachusetts, USA. The term is used today to describe a series of alloys used as a bearing metal. Babbitt metal is characterized by its resistance to galling.
Common compositions for Babbitt alloys:
   90% tin, 10% copper
   89% tin, 7% antimony, 4% copper
   80% lead, 15% antimony, 5% tin
Originally used as a cast in place bulk bearing material, it is now more commonly used as a thin surface layer in a complex, multi metal structure.
Babbitt metal is soft and easily damaged, and seems at first sight an unlikely candidate for a bearing surface, but this appearance is deceptive. The structure of the alloy is made up of small hard crystals dispersed in a matrix of softer alloy. As the bearing wears the harder crystal is exposed, with the matrix eroding somewhat to provide a path for the lubricant between the high spots that provide the actual bearing surface.

Alternative bearings

In many applications, rolling-element bearings, such as ball or roller bearings, have replaced Babbitt bearings. Though such bearings can offer a lower coefficient of friction than plain bearings, their key advantage is that they can operate reliably without a continuous pressurized supply of lubricant. Ball and roller bearings can also be used in configurations that are required to carry both radial and axial thrusts. However, rolling-element bearings lack the beneficial damping and shock-load capability provided by fluid-film bearings, such as the Babbitt.
A wide variety of Babbitt alloys exist, such as:
   A lead-based based Babbitt (75% lead, 10% tin)
   A copper-lead based Babbitt (76% copper, 24% lead)
   A copper-lead-tin based Babbitt composed of (67% copper, 28% tin)


Example of Pinoy sales pitch found in the internet:


Date: 17.02.2006
Product name: XXXX Nickel Babbitt Alloy
Country of origin: Philippines
Product description:
Specifications:

A large volume of XXXX Nickel Babbitt Bars was uncovered and presently in stock pile inside a bunker within the Mindanao area.

Others claim it must be lead and not nickel. But in any case, both metal elements have commercial value and highly sough for.

There is also the possibility of more precious metal commodity hidden deep inside the bunker. This is only possible to uncover if we move out and dispose of these metal bars first. Regardless of this however, the volume of metal bars visibly and physically available is more than sufficient enough to generously reward all parties involve.

We are inviting you to be part of this party and we guarantee you financial reward of unimaginable proportions in comparison to your modest funding. We are offering 12% commission incentive from the total gross sales of the inventoried 20,000 metric tones of nickel babbitt bars.

Our XXXX Nickel Babbitt Alloy comply with International Quality Standards and their quality and durability are fully guranteed.

OR.......

We have commodity nickel babbit xxxx lead metal 1. 2 kgs to 2. 2 kgs in bar form bunker take over operation
Initial delivery 100, 000 metric tons per order and roll-over scheme for the next orders volume 40 million pieces selling price is

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3208
  • Gender: Male
    • Southeast Asia Maritime Foundation
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 10:05:19 PM »
MasKara,
Wow.. we all appreciate that detailed explanation about Nickel Babbitt in the Philippines. That was great.
TW

Angel_09

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 11:16:22 PM »
Maskara my bro,

it is true that nickle babbit originated from USA, and this name is a trademark. And the word babbit came from the surname of Isaac Babbit. But this material is commonly used in the Philippines and a well oriented engine rebuilder usually use this material in "rebabbitting" their bearings.
Bearings of most reciprocating engines usually use "babbit" material. The reason is for the easily matching of the crankshaft against ithe bearing surface. It can be machined up to 1/10,000 of an inch or for more crude method, by means of scraper. Bearings we are using for engine, say Toyota, is a babbit lined bearing.
Most sellers of this babbit don't have any idea where this material came from, how it is used ... and regarding the price, it is taken from internet as a reference. They only advertized it the way it was advertized to them...by the originator.
This material is very common in most ship facilities, although considered as controlled material, some can still smuggled it outside the facility.
I suspect that an original cast of this babbit where they pattern all the existing duplicate came from Subic Bay, because this facility is consuming hundreds of kilos of babbit during the Vietnam war....repairing propulsion engines, engines for generators, and all other applications.
Or.... it is possible that these mateials including other metal ingots such as bronze, copper, iron, monel, stainless steel and others were all purposely carried by American ships during WW2 as repair materials for their ships.

It may be also true that on the opposite side, the Japanese navy also bring these type of materials in form of ingots to serve also for the same purposes.

These materials in big volume can be considerd as treasure, but since some hunters are more "conditioned" to gold and platinum, these items were all neglected thinking as "of no value"....

Angel_09

Offline MasKara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 03:09:19 AM »
Maskara my bro,

it is true that nickle babbit originated from USA, and this name is a trademark. And the word babbit came from the surname of Isaac Babbit. But this material is commonly used in the Philippines and a well oriented engine rebuilder usually use this material in "rebabbitting" their bearings.
Bearings of most reciprocating engines usually use "babbit" material. The reason is for the easily matching of the crankshaft against ithe bearing surface. It can be machined up to 1/10,000 of an inch or for more crude method, by means of scraper. Bearings we are using for engine, say Toyota, is a babbit lined bearing.
Most sellers of this babbit don't have any idea where this material came from, how it is used ... and regarding the price, it is taken from internet as a reference. They only advertized it the way it was advertized to them...by the originator.
This material is very common in most ship facilities, although considered as controlled material, some can still smuggled it outside the facility.
I suspect that an original cast of this babbit where they pattern all the existing duplicate came from Subic Bay, because this facility is consuming hundreds of kilos of babbit during the Vietnam war....repairing propulsion engines, engines for generators, and all other applications.
Or.... it is possible that these mateials including other metal ingots such as bronze, copper, iron, monel, stainless steel and others were all purposely carried by American ships during WW2 as repair materials for their ships.

It may be also true that on the opposite side, the Japanese navy also bring these type of materials in form of ingots to serve also for the same purposes.

These materials in big volume can be considerd as treasure, but since some hunters are more "conditioned" to gold and platinum, these items were all neglected thinking as "of no value"....

Angel_09

Bro, I do not know where you got your analogy that to repair a ship you need metal alloys not the pre manufactured spare parts of Engines etc.

It's like saying i have spare parts of my car composed of metal alloys, If my engine broke i will mold these metals to form as brake pads or Engine block.. Do you think the American and the Japs bring with them the whole manufacturing plants in the battle field?

Correct me if I am wrong you conclude that these metal alloys where also concealed in big volumes by the Japs for latter retreaval. I do not see the logic. Please explain maybe I am missing something.

Angel_09

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 09:57:59 AM »
My bro,

Specifically, babbit is used for bearings, as bearing lining. It is the white metal we can see on the split bearings use for crankshaft from 2" up to larger diameter crankshaft or shaft. This material was never used as any other parts of the engine except for the bearings. (as far as I know). We all know that  in an engine, there are main bearings, con-rod bearings and camshaft bearings, and these bearings are all split type, steel back and babbitt lined bearings. (except some camshaft bearing w/c is aluminum alloy lined by babbit)
In naval ships, The propulsion shaft is resting in what we called pedestal bearings, in which the thickness if babbitt lining is approximately up to 0.500 of an inch or less, and are positioned to the length of the shaft to support its weight. inside the propulsion engine, specially the older type using with cross head type pistons, bearing used are also split type, for easier removal, repair or replacement. Sometimes if they run out of bearings (if they have breakdown) they reuse the bearing by taking off the babbit lining and pouring a new babbit, machine it and fit it as a recon bearing.
On board ship, it is a complete engineering facility. They have machine shop, with most of the lathe machines, milling machines, and others..they can even manufacture piston rings and any other spare parts.
They also have electrical shop, for all electrical work and such.
During world war 2, a ship can't stay at high seas if it doesn't have any engineering support within. Although there are spares onboard, these are considered as contigency components in a worst case scenario.
JApanese taken over the Subic bay facility during the war, and this facility must have raw materials to produce spare parts as ship's components; split bearings for propulsion ship, main engine, all drive engine w/c always need spare bearings and are babbit lined.

Regarding its volume, I'm not sure how much they bring in here in the Phil., but I'm sure they brought some where the "Philippine babbit manufacturer" used as samples.

BTW, in Subic, there was an area that they call "disposal",...in here all unused precious  materials are gathered and are disposed thru bidding, or sometimes sending it back to CONUS. Would you believe if I tell you that they have precious metals section in  this place? They have platinum, gold (not the usual platinum/gold in bars) silver, babbit and other they considered precious....

Angel_09

Gener

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 04:07:52 PM »
Very educational subject,,,,I learning a lot from you guys! Thanks and proven that you guys are simply having a lot of research...Keep up with your very interesting subjects,,,you deserved appreciation plaques....I wonder if how i can provide each one of you? THANK YOU...

Angel_09

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 04:27:28 PM »
the truth is: Bro Maskara  and our other colleauge are very good stimulators. They can squezze those frozen information  out of our nutshells. But for me it is very stimulating...I love brain storming...My brothers....

Angel_09

Offline cap miwa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 10:29:53 PM »
While waiting for the awarding of the plaque of appreciation, we could already bestow our brothers MasKara and Angel_09 the title "PROFESSOR"  ;D Keep it up Profs! Your wide knowledge and research will help us learn a lot!

Offline MasKara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 11:22:39 PM »
Amen to that my friend but the truth is we are all learning from each other all of us are the "PROFESSOR".

Angel_09

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 11:42:06 PM »
Bros,

Each and everyone of us have our own share of the pie. Just like a peso, it will not be completed if there  are missing centavos.

Angel_09

Offline cap miwa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 09:21:26 PM »
Professors,
My friend called me today that he has a sample of a nickel babbit. there engraved on the bar the following:
FEDERATED METAL DIVISION / AMERICAN SMELTING AND REFINING COMPANY. He wants me to send the sample for assay. Can you comment on this?

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3208
  • Gender: Male
    • Southeast Asia Maritime Foundation
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 09:28:12 PM »
Professors,
My friend called me today that he has a sample of a nickel babbit. there engraved on the bar the following:
FEDERATED METAL DIVISION / AMERICAN SMELTING AND REFINING COMPANY. He wants me to send the sample for assay. Can you comment on this?

Cap Miwa,
That's the exact same material that MasKara already posted the photos and info on here in one of the above post. Have a look at the photo above to see what these bars look like. I also had a couple of these bars passed to me when I was in the Philippines last time. I think they are floating around everywhere there.
TW

Offline MasKara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 10:48:22 PM »
Professors,
My friend called me today that he has a sample of a nickel babbit. there engraved on the bar the following:
FEDERATED METAL DIVISION / AMERICAN SMELTING AND REFINING COMPANY. He wants me to send the sample for assay. Can you comment on this?

I am sure there is no Federal Metal Division in USA but there are comanies named Federal Metal and they have Metal divisions.

 
Babbit As A Bearing Material

In 1839, Isaac Babbitt received the first patent for a white metal alloy that showed excellent bearing properties. Since then, the name babbitt has been used for other alloys involving similar ingredients. Babbitts offer an almost unsurpassed combination of compatibility, comfirmability, and embedability. They easily adapt their shapes to comform to the bearing shaft and will hold a lubricnt film. Foreign matter not carried away by the lubrication is embedded below the surface and rendered hamless. These characteristics are due to babbitt's hard/soft composition. High-tim babbitts, for example, consist of a relatively soft, solid matrix of tin in which are distributed hard copper-tin needles and tin-antimony cuboids. This provides for "good run-in" which means the bearing will adsorb a lubricant on the surface and hold the lubricant film. Even under severe operating conditions, where high loads, fatigue problems, or high temperature dictate the use of other stronger materials, babbits are often employed as a thin surface coating to obtain the advantage of their good rubbing characteristics.

Genuine Nickel Babbitt

Nickel Babbitt is the result of over sixty years constant effort to produce the best bearing alloy, regardless of cost. Today it stands supreme in the field of high-grade bearing metals. It is made only of carefully selected virgin materials and each element is subjected to scientific treatment during the alloying process.

Nickel Babbitt lasts longer under severe service, because,


It holds the oil film
It pours freely and fills all liner crevices
It's anti-frictional
It cannot cut the shaft
It resists high temperatures
It has high thermal conductivity

Nickel Babbitt is recommended for use in:

Blowers                     
Dredges                   
Lumber Mills             
Rock and Gravel Machinery
Cement Mills             
Electrical machinery           
Marine Service                     
Steel Mills     
Clay Working Machinery                 
Electric Railroads               
Mining Machinery                 
Sugar Mills   
Compressors                       
Engines, Internal Combustion                     
Paper Mills               
Turbines       
Crushers                   
Engines, Steam                   
Pumps


High Grade Nickel Babbits (Lead-Based) Composition: (Preferred by buyers)

Lead (Pb) 99.7%
Tin (Sn) 0.24%[/b][/color]

Brother Cap, if you have this composition (alloy) in the metal you have then you can sell it to the above enumerated manufacturers or industries.

Good Luck



 


Angel_09

  • Guest
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 12:02:40 AM »
Bros,

These are additional info in support to Bro. Maskara.

                    Tin Based Alloys - Chemical Composition (%) Chart

INDUSTRY NAME   ASTM B23         Sn             Sb                        Cu                       Pb
                                                 (Tin)              (Antimony)                       (Copper)                (Lead)
Marine 11 D     -               90.0 - 92.0           4.5 - 5.5                    3.5 - 4.5      0.35 (Max)
No. 1               Grade 1        90.0 - 92.0         4.0 - 5.0                    4.0 - 5.0         0.35 (Max)
Marine 11R     -        89.0 - 89.5         7.5 - 8.5                    2.5 - 3.0      0.35 (Max)
Nickel Genuine   Grade 2        88.0 - 90.0         7.0 - 8.0                    3.0 - 4.0      0.35 (Max)
Marine 11     -        88.0 - 90.0         5.5 - 6.0                    5.0 - 5.5      0.35 (Max)
4X Royal Nickel  Genuine   -    87.5 - 89.5         7.25-7.75                    3.25 -3.75      0.35 (Max)
Diesel Special   -        87.5 - 88.0         6.5 - 7.0                     5.0 - 6.0      0.35 (Max)
No. 11              Grade 11        86.0 - 89.0         6.0 - 7.5                     5.0 - 6.5      0.35 (Max)
SAE 11       -        85.0 - 87.0         7.0 - 8.0                     6.0 - 7.0      0.35 (Max)
Imperial Genuine   -        85.0 - 87.0         6.5 - 7.5                     6.5 - 7.5      0.35 (Max)
Turbine   -                     84.0 - 86.0         6.5 - 7.5                     7.5 - 8.5      0.35 (Max)
Royal Armature   -        83.5 - 84.0         8.0 - 8.5                     7.5 - 8.5      0.35 (Max)
Super Tough      Grade 3        83.0 - 85.0         7.5 - 8.5                      7.5 - 8.5      0.35 (Max)

Maximum Allowable Impurities:      Fe=0.08, As=0.10, Bi=0.08, Zn=0.005, Al=0.005, Cd=0.05
 
                                        Lead Based Alloys - Chemical Composition (%) Chart

INDUSTRY NAME    ASTM B23    Sn        Sb                  Pb                     As        
                                                     (Tin)       (Antimony)          (Lead)             (Arsenic)
No. 13                 Grade 13              5.5 - 6.5     9.5 - 10.5   Balance            0.25 (Max)
Mill Anchor       -             4.0 - 6.0   11.5 - 12.5   Balance            0.25 (Max)
Durite                Grade 15             0.8 - 1.2   14.5 - 17.5   Balance             0.8 - 1.4
Star                    -             5.0 - 5.5   13.5 - 14.5   Balance            0.30 - 0.60
Silverstone       -             1.0 - 3.0   17.5 - 18.5   Balance            0.25 (Max)
Royal                Grade 8             4.5 - 5.5   14.0 - 16.0   Balance          0.30 - 0.60
Heavy Pressure   Grade 7             9.3 - 10.7   14.0 - 16.0   Balance            0.30 - 0.60
Special Sawguide   -             9.0 - 11.0   18.5 - 19.5   Balance          0.25 (Max)

Maximum Allowable Impurities:     Cu=0.50, Fe=0.10, Bi=0.10, Zn=0.005, Al=0.005, Cd=0.05

First, determine what type of babbit they are selling, then determine the metal price of higher concentration. If there are really big volume of these, you can make money out of it. Just make sure the price will not exceed the prevailing market price.

Offline MasKara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Nickel Babbitt
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2009, 12:17:59 AM »
Sell them off market as SCARP METAL as is no assay to make it simple, let the buyer do the rest. still you will make a big profit.