Author Topic: Imperial Japanese Geodetic Survey, Mapmaking,Maps: In context to Ph. T. Hunting  (Read 29476 times)

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Offline franke

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Sir Ven,

The one I posted, just confirmed it's a katakana character based on searching of translation east, west, north and south and some character, but I won't post it completely until I visited the site and if still existing and still virgin. If times come I confirm those area is already touch and empty I post it here for studying purposes.

Thanks.

Offline Ben Valmores

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 North line and a scale

Well i reviewed my files here, some have complete compass bearings, some have only the North line and scale but some, none. But most of my files here were just cuts or dissected part of a whole map and let's make do with what little we have than none.

These Gaihozo maps were now presented as part and in accordance with that long delayed post war Disclosure Act that post war Japanese government agreed and that Disclosure Act movements by Japanese citizens themselves lobbied for how many years for Japan’s first national information disclosure law which took effect  April 2001 – and was met with thousands of applications filed at government agencies within the first weeks of operation.
(I will present this later too.)

Nonetheless, let's just focus on our concern here.

With those type of Japanese G.L maps with only North line and scale and those with no compass bearings and scales---What then can we infer to these?

Maybe that means, anyone with the exact knowledge can decode the map, and maybe all infos are already given in the map where it all lays there to be rightly decoded? Or, is there a special but separate loot burial diagrams derived from one big scaled "Regional Map"?

Also we have to remember what Seagraves had emphasized in his Gold warrior book that according to the real Benjamen Valmores, ;) ;), the maps entrusted to him by Tsuneyoshi Takeda or "Kimso" for that matter were composed of 3 series for one specific site alone, that is the white, the blue and the red series respectively. The white as "vicinity or sketch map", the blue or the red, can either be as 'directional map" and a "trap map" (i might have interchanged the last two said maps).

“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Gboy

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I had 3 maps on one G.L. site or big vol site.......2 of which are vicinity maps and one are the structural map or trap map of the tunnel complex (cross section of the entire mountain, several tunnel levels and treasure chamber).

With this underground structural treasure map, somehow I was able to get the idea how complex the G. L. sites are...how thick the concrete chambers for each level, what kind of traps do you expect, what kind of sand colors or rock colors on each tunnel, where the water comes from the water trap, etc....

IF THIS IS THE STANDARD DESIGN OF ALL G.L. SITEs, NO WAY AN ORDINARY TREAS HUNTER CAN GET IT....N-O---W-A-Y   >:(  ......THATS WhY, AFTER SEEING THIS G.L. OR BIG VOL SITE MAP.....I STOP DIGGING ... ;D

Offline Ben Valmores

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With this underground structural treasure map, somehow I was able to get the idea how complex the G. L. sites are...how thick the concrete chambers for each level, what kind of traps do you expect, what kind of sand colors or rock colors on each tunnel, where the water comes from the water trap, etc....

IF THIS IS THE STANDARD DESIGN OF ALL G.L. SITEs, NO WAY AN ORDINARY TREAS HUNTER CAN GET IT....N-O---W-A-Y   >:(  ......THATS WhY, AFTER SEEING THIS G.L. OR BIG VOL SITE MAP.....I STOP DIGGING ... ;D

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Gboy welcome aboard and thanks for sharing, and that will be much better if you mind sharing some of those you got ;) ;) ;), mind you friend, you're right those G.L sites are too hard for an individual hunter....

“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Ben Valmores

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I remember, in one of my readings, that was in Wikipedia, something about the Matsushiro Underground Imperial Headquarters, Coordinates:  36.545811°N 138.203931°E

The Matsushiro Underground Imperial Headquarters (松代大本営跡 Matsushiro Daihon'ei Ato?, was a large underground bunker complex built during the Second World War in the Matsushiro suburb of Nagano, Japan.

The facility was constructed so that the central organs of government of Imperial Japan could be transferred there. In its construction, three mountains, symbolic of Matsushiro Municipality were damaged.
Parts of the caves are open to the public today, and are operated as a tourist attraction by Nagano.

Construction
 
Construction began on November 11, 1944 and continued until Japan's surrender on August 15, 1945. Construction was 75% completed at the end of the war, with 5,856.6 square meters (63,040 sq ft) of floor-space (59,635 cubic meters (2,106,000 cu ft) of volume) excavated.

Between 7,000 and 10,000 Korean slave laborers were used to build the complex, and it is estimated that 1,500 of them died. Forty-six Koreans disappeared on August 15, 1945, when Japan surrendered. The project cost ¥200,000,000
 
 A diagram of the complex

The complex was an interlinked series of tunnels underneath several mountains. Facilities for theImperial General Headquarters and palace functions were constructed under Mount Maizuru; military communications under Mount Saijo; government agencies, NHK and central telephone facilities under Mount Zōzan; the residences of the imperial family under Mount Minakami, and the Imperial Sanctuary under Mount Kobo.

The original purpose of the complex was to serve as an alternative headquarters for the Imperial General headquarters. However, in March 1945, secret orders were issued to add a palace to the complex. Yoshijirō Umezu informed Emperor Hirohito about construction of the complex in May, but did not tell him that it contained a palace.

This is a lengthy description in Wikipedia and to avoid distracting our thread i will post most of the description on the thread "Why Tunnels Are Round".

But what struck me most is this lines

While the project was an operational secret in the guise of a warehouse, from the statement of a local Japanese labourer, rumours were rife in the surrounding villages and towns that the emperor was coming to town. The cause of the rumours was due to the massive amounts of cargo that came on trains.

see below attachment of the Diagram for the said Imperial Japanese Tunnel Complex.

I believe, this is the fortress of them all, above all other wartime Imperial Japanese Tunnel Complexes----THE SUPPOSED RESTING PLACE OF ALL LOOTED TREASURES.

Gboy, does the one you're holding looks like this?
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
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Offline Gboy

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   NOPE ...

1) It looks like a basic Japanese map with lots of Japs characters.
2) But instead of top view, its in side view and it describe the entire cross section of the whole mountain, underground tunnel stories or level, and treasure chamber.
3) Each underground level (stories) it describes what kind of composition of each entire level......ex: hard cement, soft cement, mud, sand, hollow space, rocks, water, etc)...each level or stories had different compositions. Each level or story is est. 10 feet thick just like bldg. story or tunnel level.
4) It describes the flow of water from the river/waterfalls towards the water trap in one of the underground level or story.
5) It describes the treasure tunnel chamber and the traps that surrounded it.
6) It had lots of Japs descriptions, measurements, etc.
7) Based on my observation of the map drawings.....from the ground level, it probably had more or less 10-15 underground stories or tunnel with different compositions....then treasure chamber we suspect as big as basketball court.
8) On top of the ground level...is the entire mountain... ;D .... meaning you have to remove the entire mountain then you dig 15 stories underground....hehe .. ;D

I suspect this is the standard design of all Japs G.L. or big vol sites..but I maybe wrong also.

Offline Ben Valmores

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Let's get back to our topic Gaihozu, right after some rest....
Hello everybody have a contemplative Holy Week :) :) :)
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Ben Valmores

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WOWW,,,WOWWOWW :D :D :D Gboy, the one you are holding is another TREASURE by ITSELF.... could you be kind enough to share me a copy just for POSTERITY sake ;) ;) ;)
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Ben Valmores

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 GBOY,

There might be a secret passage to it, even though it might not still be easy but it might be possible............Even for some small "bonus" deposit somewhere ;) ;) ;)

Take a hint on one of IJA's Principles of  Construction ;) ;) ;)
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Gboy

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In 1988,  a staff of Japan consul photocopied several maps from the vault of Japan Consulate in Davao and was given to my friend. My friend never attempted to operate these sites bcoz he knows that these maps are big vol sites and expensive to operate. Nevertheless, I was able to get some copies for our own extensive TH files and perusal.

I know that this particular map is unique among other Japs maps bcoz it give us lots of information or idea about buried big vol sites. This is where I got an idea of "of alleged vanishing treasure vault". I interview lots of treasure hunter and some of them had told us that they already found a concrete vault, but after overnight, the following morning the concrete vault was gone and what remain was a small collapse portion of dig site...where the concrete vault go ???  They even suspect of spirits or enkantos took their concrete vault.

By observing this particular map tunnel design....a hard cement vault was intentionally put on top of an empty space or square deep well. parang nakapatong sa butas . A slight nudge of the vault or soil erosion on the side of the cement vault, it will slide down into deep hole or empty second tunnel chamber. The rest are several level or stories of concrete vault, empty space, different colored sands, gravel, mud, rocks, water, etc.

Before the vanishing vault was the cause of enkantos or spirits with this unique tunnel design map, this could be the logical explanation of the alleged vanishing concrete vault.

YOU ARE CORRECT......THIS PARTICULAR UNIQUE TREASURE MAP IS INDEED A TREASURE TROVE OF INFORMATION IN ITSELF ABOUT DIGGINGS, TRAPS AND  TREASURE TUNNEL DESIGN


 

Offline Ben Valmores

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So now you've proven me right also about my previous postings with regards to a sliding design of a treasure vault. And yes, many attribute it to engkantos and the likes, causing misunderstandings within the group and causing dissolution.

Also, from somewhere in what you wrote, i know that somewhere here in my view of mountains fronting my end here is one big tunnel complex like the one you described....

Something that this mountains have this position of REVERSE SLOPE DEFENSE...

These Tunnel Complexes serves most for tunnel warfare and shelter with secondary purpose as big treasure depository sites...
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline zeeker

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In 1988,  a staff of Japan consul photocopied several maps from the vault of Japan Consulate in Davao and was given to my friend. My friend never attempted to operate these sites bcoz he knows that these maps are big vol sites and expensive to operate. Nevertheless, I was able to get some copies for our own extensive TH files and perusal.

I know that this particular map is unique among other Japs maps bcoz it give us lots of information or idea about buried big vol sites. This is where I got an idea of "of alleged vanishing treasure vault". I interview lots of treasure hunter and some of them had told us that they already found a concrete vault, but after overnight, the following morning the concrete vault was gone and what remain was a small collapse portion of dig site...where the concrete vault go ???  They even suspect of spirits or enkantos took their concrete vault.

By observing this particular map tunnel design....a hard cement vault was intentionally put on top of an empty space or square deep well. parang nakapatong sa butas . A slight nudge of the vault or soil erosion on the side of the cement vault, it will slide down into deep hole or empty second tunnel chamber. The rest are several level or stories of concrete vault, empty space, different colored sands, gravel, mud, rocks, water, etc.

Before the vanishing vault was the cause of enkantos or spirits with this unique tunnel design map, this could be the logical explanation of the alleged vanishing concrete vault.

YOU ARE CORRECT......THIS PARTICULAR UNIQUE TREASURE MAP IS INDEED A TREASURE TROVE OF INFORMATION IN ITSELF ABOUT DIGGINGS, TRAPS AND  TREASURE TUNNEL DESIGN


after hearing similar stories from fellow THs about a vault vanishing, i also entertained the idea that the japs must have built a system that will enable the vault to slide into other location when something is triggered or disturbed. now sir Gboy, a veteran TH, confirms it.

and yes they all believed that engkantos/guardians are the culprit :(
and blaming one or the other bec somebody in the group could have offended the engkanto/guardian hahaha
continue the journey

Offline renantiur

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im sorry for the 1st post. pls remove the post immediately preceeding this post.

FROM GBOY

This is where I got an idea of "of alleged vanishing treasure vault". I interview lots of treasure hunter and some of them had told us that they already found a concrete vault, but after overnight, the following morning the concrete vault was gone and what remain was a small collapse portion of dig site...where the concrete vault go ???  They even suspect of spirits or enkantos took their concrete vault.




                not only did i hear it from others, i actually encountered 2 sliding concrete vaults in davao city

                  1. 1st vault actually moved or slided into another location after 3 days of pounding it with a drilling machine.   after the 3rd day with incessant and constant pounding, the vault just vanished the next morning. all we saw was a hole and a 5-7 feet void. we measured it based on our metal cable attached to the drilling bit.   we only made a small hole, equivalent to almost 1.5 feet diameter , enough or the drill bit to pass the hole and do the pounding.

                 2. learning from the 1st experience, this time, we made a hole enough for 6 persons to go down and stand on the hole.  i estimated it at 2 meters. since i really want to make sure that i should see it before my 2 eyes if ever the concrete vault should vanish, i made that hole so big enough for me to see it at 45feet-48 feet from above all the way down (with proper lightings of course).   

                 after 2-3 weeks of making a hole with the modified big drilling machine, we were able to make that 2 meters diameter hole. at 45 feet, we were able to encounter again another concrete vault. what was amazing were the following:

                                  a. the concrete cement vault was positioned at almost 45 degrees (not 45%- but the inclination was leaning towards that direction.

                                  b. the concrete vault moved slowly (positioned at almost 45%) if there are two persons who will stand there at the same side and opposite to the inclination, similar to the one i saw at national treasure part 2 where the vault moved  .   i concluded that the cement vault was really positioned in an unstable manner, so that any weight opposite to the inclination, or any force that pounds the vault disturbing the current stable position  or any digging that will remove the earth from the portion that holds the concrete vault from sliding,   it is designed to slide from one chamber to another.  i think GBoy is right that one of the portion has a big hole, a hole where the cement vault will slide.  the position is like this

                                               "   \    "


sadly, we were not able to break open the 2nd vault (positioned at 45degrees) since the owner just ordered us to leave for so many reasons , legal means and/or foul, after seeing the concrete vault.  i could say, greed got us booted from the said place.

Offline Ben Valmores

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That's okay once in a while Zeeker, as this comes out due to the discussion of maps ( a collateral discussion that is) at least we are talking and sharing very sensible thoughts...

But well, if the moderator decides to create a special thread for that matter, be it titled--In Depth Analysis of a Golden Lily Map and i respectfully nominate Gboy to be the Author and or teacher...i have nominated and who will second the motion?, hep hep hurray..We are calling Gboy please.... my high respects.

Well, i have emphasized here to post samples of Gaihozu maps of Imperial Japanese Army in chronological order from the very earliest to the pre and world war two era,

But in order to continue the momentum, i'll offer everyone here a surprise....

That instead of featuring you some sample Gaihozu Maps from other Asean/ Pacific nations the Japanese Imperial Government colonized,

I'll post this map instead.... the Imperial Japanese Army's Gaihozu Map of the Philippines.

This for the sake and spirit of sharing...

I enjoin any member who has the ability to interpret Japanese writings that dominate the Map...please contribute your interpretations.----I will not post it until anyone swears here to truthfully volunteer to interpret the Jap writings.

No, i am not claiming that this is a treasure map but this is more maybe of a Topographical Map of the Philippines as rendered by the IJA's secret survey squads.

Some claims that TSEATC is getting boring...., now Gboy friend help me help revolutionize more our beloved forum. I'll post the GaihoZu of Philippines and you handle my other suggestion.
(of course this is only a suggestion and i respect your decision to decline)

Again to review:

Gaihozu:
 Are the maps of areas outside Japanese territories mostly general topographic ma
ps.
Gaihozu. Also referred to variously in the past as imperial maps, colonial surveys, or captured military maps
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Re: Re: Imperial Japanese Geodetic Survey, Mapmaking,Maps: In context to Ph. T. Hunting
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2013, 11:16:53 PM »

Sorry, I decline bcoz I am not an expert on map or G.L. map. I am just like anybody else curious and ignorant about Japs treasure map.  ;)

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No worries Gboy, but please continue contributing as we go along the thread, even how few your paragraphs are but every words of it are "nakakayanig", earthquake and or earth moving :o :o :o, really, please keep it up.....
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To the mods, thanks for readily providing supposedly new windows for the said new topics but as our friend Gboy politely declines, no probs, lets just continue our topics here, and no takers yet for the translations???,,,nevermind, i'll post one for now,,,so.....enjoy :) :) ;) ;)

But please anyone who knows to translate please post back with complete translations okay??


“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan

Offline Ben Valmores

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ohhh i have been fixing the map but its just too big to attach...

for the meantime please make do with this....still part of the Philippines maybe somewhere Visayas..just not sure

So if there's one who can translate please contribute, we might just find something that we can connect to Philippine T> Hunting.
“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice: It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”
---William Jennings Bryan