Author Topic: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?  (Read 93048 times)

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Offline MasKara

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REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« on: July 14, 2009, 01:27:58 AM »
TW & Fellow TH's

Can you please comment if these are real 6.2 Sumatra Au bars?


Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 01:31:34 AM »
HAve you seen similar pictures before? just want to know if these people are going to scam me.

Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 01:36:32 AM »
Another view, The sellers wanted me to go down their place personally am still skeptical if they are real or just another con. They do not want to show me photos of the whole loot. If they will show pics of all the bars then maybe they are eal or maybe they have only a couple just for show off and victimized excited buyers.

Angel_09

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »
Maskara,

I'm not that very good in determining if a piece of metal is of what type, But I still remember some metals if it is subjected to cutting tool.
I won't give my final comment yet, but if it is possible, can you ask what karat and approximate weight of each bar?

Regards,

Angel

Angel_09

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 02:21:36 PM »
Maskara,

In gold dealing, there are two opposite interest we need to observe.
1. The interest of the buyer that the seller do not have enough knowledge about what he is selling, meaning, he is looking for a bargain.
2. The interest of the seller that the buyer will bypass selling/buying procedures because of the bargain.

With these, the buyer will be always on the losing side...why? From 50's to present, gold dealing, selling has evolved to the point where the seller is on the winning side and the buyers are on the losing side. From original gold to substitute.

Gener

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 04:51:26 PM »
Just be careful,
 Some Swindlers SHOWS a sample of an ORIGINAL GOLDBAR but the actual stockpile are BRONZE or just WORDS OF SCEPTICAL...You will know that only once they show you a PALM and colt.45cal on the other side...Just be careful with your dealings, be WISE!!!! looks real to me???

Angel_09

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 03:39:27 AM »
Maskara,

Since photo is our only means for checking the authenticity of the bar, I arrived to the conclusion that those bars are not original.(not 100% correct)
Here are my observations:
1. The signiture of the cutting tool was scattered on the surface of the bar, meaning, the teeth of the saw was sliding to the surface, if it does, the bar is harder than original gold bar.
2. On the cut on the right side, we can see the cracks in the bottom end of the cut area, w/c in my opinion indicates the metal is brittle , w/c is against the property of gold, malleability...

In actual process of assaying, my procedures are as follows:

a. Displacement method
b. Acid test-to determine the karat
c. Destructive testing, melting the whole gold bar to ensure that tungsten is not sandwich inside. (Tungsten is ifdentical w/ gold when it comes to S.G.) They can make a gold bar made of tungsten coated w/ gold...same density, volume and weight.

My two cents,


Angel_09

Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 03:47:52 AM »
Angel,
I do not know how a buyer will always be on the loser side. There is a thing we call as DISCOUNT in Buy/Sell Transaction procedure like in most cases 70%-30% , 30% gross 20% net. base in LMER on second fixing day. or just straight buys as per agreed with seller below the LMER prevailing price.
If you buy just for buying sake with no DISCOUNT PROCEDURE not knowing the prevailing LMER then you are surely at the loosing end. The discount is the buyers profit (20%) even the exchange is base on LMER.

In this case we are talking of undocumented Au and the seller in the first place just found the Gold and his only expenses are TH activities incurred and his time and efforts looking for the treasure. So when he sells it it comes back to him even with big discounts 1million fold.

And even if we are talking of documented Au still the buyer will not loose because again of the discount like if it is GLD the discount is 10% -7% , 5% gross and 3%net, If the Au is dore or not (GLD) Good London Delivery meaning the hallmark expired then the discount is even bigger like 15%, 10% gross and 5%net or even more.

So ever since gold was traded there was no loser. B'coz gold appreciate in time and do not depreciate in time. When gold price was peg to about $300.00 it now is morethan $1000.00 and everyday price is base on LMER or the New York Market Exchange Rate as guide for buyers. So that Gold price in the market is predictable for buyer to rely when they trade or buy gold.

Gener,
Small time swindler use their only gold bar as a show off then when you buy they switch it with fake bar.
while big time swindler say they have 10MT to 300MT but they ask for P300,000.00 deposit first to show 2 gold bars then will promised you that they will released the bigger volume latter for P50 mil. deposit

Angel_09

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 04:06:04 AM »
MAskara,
I think we are a bit out of synch about my reply. Let me rephrase it.

With these, the buyer will be always on the losing side...why? From 50's to present, gold dealing, selling has evolved to the point where the seller is on the winning side and the buyers are on the losing side. From original gold to substitute.(FAKE).

SELLERS OF FAKE GOLD BARS DON'T CARE ABOUT LMER, IF A BUYER CAN CASH OUT ANY AMOUNT, MORE THAN THE COST OF PRODUCTION OF THEIR FAKE BAR, THEY WILL TAKE YOUR MONEY AND WILL GIVE YOU THE BAR.

my 2 cents,


Angel_09

Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 04:06:26 AM »
Angel, good observation and analogy I do not know if that realy is the result of the saw sliding or just marks for measuring where to cut. I do not see the cracks inside where it was cut. But any way your comments are being considered.

They said they have a pawnshop assayer record of 22K, 6.2 bar but I told them that we have to do our own assay even just for 32oz or 1/4" or 3/8" drill daigonal in 3 places at the side but no response yet.

I'll keep you all updated.

Angel_09

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 04:09:44 AM »
Maskara,

Check your picture with a magnifying glass. I use one and it is very visible.

Angel_09

Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2009, 04:21:30 AM »
Maskara,

In gold dealing, there are two opposite interest we need to observe.
1. The interest of the buyer that the seller do not have enough knowledge about what he is selling, meaning, he is looking for a bargain.
2. The interest of the seller that the buyer will bypass selling/buying procedures because of the bargain.

With these, the buyer will be always on the losing side...why? From 50's to present, gold dealing, selling has evolved to the point where the seller is on the winning side and the buyers are on the losing side. From original gold to substitute.

This is what i am referring in your Quote (see above). which is very straight forward - buyer looking for a bargain. And you did not elaborate substitute means FAKE
 
Your rebutal:
I think we are a bit out of synch about my reply. Let me rephrase it.

With these, the buyer will be always on the losing side...why? From 50's to present, gold dealing, selling has evolved to the point where the seller is on the winning side and the buyers are on the losing side. From original gold to substitute.(FAKE).
 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 09:07:35 AM by MasKara »

Offline takara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 07:56:10 AM »
maskara,

in th and gold bullions buying (in your case), i think we share same weaknesses that we must be careful of...

this 'want-to-mentallity' is very dangerous because we always want to believe what we 'WANT TO BELIEVE' inspite of the presence of facts and evidence contrary to what we want to believe.

think about it...

takara
tm808, gemini3 and goldbug md's but all i got so far is their digging tools. but ill keep on detecting and digging becuase its still down there!

Offline MasKara

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2009, 09:05:56 AM »
Yeah it is too good to be true and we get excited every time there's lead like this.
But if you are a trader you have to be very vigilant but also give the benefit of the doubt both sides have similar bad experiences and it's understandable.
The hard part is knowing and believing what lies ahead if what you will be dealing with are cons or just ignorant sellers which are being taken advantage by their agents or chain of brokers who are for the fast buck just riding along on the events.

We know there is something out there and instinct dictate that something big like this that undocumented commodities can't just be sold in open market because of the sensitivity of product and the enormous amount of money involved. Since both sides wanted to see POF / POP, this process make it more difficult when there is no confidence at all between Seller and Buyer.

Offline admin

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Re: REAL OR FAKE GOLD BAR?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 08:57:53 PM »
TW & Fellow TH's

Can you please comment if these are real 6.2 Sumatra Au bars?

Sorry, I just only saw this message. OK, do you know the exact dimensions? Its hard to tell from the photos there but to me that does appear to be a GENUINE gold bar.

OK so you can see my drawing of a 6.2 kg BURMA bar here. You need to know the exact dimensions in Centimeters (average) LENGTH and (average) WIDTH and the Height and multiply those three numbers and then divide that by 19.3 (specific gravity of gold) and that will give you the the weight that the bar SHOULD be if it's really gold.

If I were you I would NEVER show POF to any of those idiots! Because, then they know how much they can get if they KIDNAP you! To hell with that crap. Don't ever trust or entertain that kind of question.

TW
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 09:07:32 PM by admin »