Author Topic: Foreign Treasure Hunters  (Read 19389 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tninja

  • Guest
Foreign Treasure Hunters
« on: May 22, 2019, 04:34:30 PM »
Hello my fellow treasure hunters. I hope you are all experiencing progress towards your goals. Here I was hoping we could discuss the attitude of Filipinos in regards to foreigners who come to search for treasure in the Philippines. Maybe we could have an open discussion where "anything goes" in the spirit of constructive/informative dialogue if the moderators would allow.

To all Filipino treasure hunters I ask this question...

How do you feel about foreigners coming to the Philippines to search for Yamashita's treasure?

Please feel free to open up and express your inner most thoughts and feelings about the topic.

Since I have posed the question I will answer it also.

Personally, my attitude is that the treasure actually does not belong to any of us since it was clearly ripped from the hands of its owners during the bloodbath of WW2. After that the real owners were lost to history. I even read that a lot of the gold actually came from Europe and was re-smelted in Singapore with hallmarks of less powerful nations to avoid future reclamation. I understand some Filipinos feel they have 100% rights to the treasure because it is now buried in the Philippines and all foreigners should be prevented from any of it. But frankly speaking, if it was not for foreigners fighting and dying during WW2, the Philippines would not be the Philippines right now. It would be conquered land under the control of Japan. So in other words, Filipinos would never have a inkling of hope at recovering any of Yamashita's gold if it were not for foreigners fighting and dying to save them from the Japanese. You could say that the Americans are actually the reason the treasure was buried here in the first place. It was American submarines that formed the blockade in the South China Sea and prevented the Japanese from transporting all the loot back to Japan.

So with all that being said, my opinion is that we all have a claim to the treasure. There should not be any negativity about foreigners in the Philippines helping Filipinos recover the loot. So let us work together to retrieve the treasures left behind as a result of the blood sacrifices our ancestors made long ago.

Please feel free to disagree if you have conflicting views.

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
  • Gender: Male
    • Southeast Asia Maritime Foundation
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 07:05:14 PM »
Good post and I agree with you 100%. Let's see what the other treasure hunters have to say about this.

Personally, I have been asked countless times by Filipino treasure hunters to assist them either with equipment or financially so if they are asking assistance so many, many times they I guess they don't have any harsh feelings against Americans? I hope not.

TW

Offline Goldenwarrior72

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 03:05:35 AM »
Interesting post and I agree for the most part.

Though it seems a strange question, since it was technically stolen and put there by 'foreigners' in the first place.

That is one thing that makes treasure hunting so unique and fun, anyone can do it, from any corner of the earth, from any class of society, age of race; rich or poor, black or white, good and bad  - fishermen to businessmen, rice farmers up to the president, all do it. though so few ever find any treasure.

Yes, you're right about a lot of the Gold coming from Europe, and America, most of this was re-smelted and re-stamped in the Burma refinery, which was British owned, Before, During and After the war. You see, this was a global planned event which included people from around the world at the highest levels of monarchy, military and corporate. Those would be the same British/European banking consortium who own the US federal reserve, which began shipping gold out of U.S. and into Europe in the early 30s.... you see the chess board was being set, well in advance to the war. This is how they plan any of their global events, and why they seem so damn well organised.

Disagreed on the Submarine Blockade, there is much more to that story than most people talk about. The plan to bury this in the Philippines came years before the war ever began. It was fairly neutral territory, The emperor never had intentions to bring the treasure all the way, as to keep it from falling into the hands of his opposing Japanese Parliament. They did assume above all else that the Philippines could remain under Japanese military control, but they were of course wrong. but that has not stopped their recovery efforts.

So yeah it's really a 'finders keepers' game generally. does not matter where you're from. but then again if you're not careful you can lose it to one of the many groups out there waiting to relieve you of it, Filipinos and foreigners.
A good friend of mine once told me there are 3 types of TH - The Hunter, The Finder and The Keeper.
Those who hunt don't always find and those who find don't always keep. Trick is to become all 3.

I've had good and bad experiences working with filipinos here, just like i've had good and bad experiences with foreigners here, an asshole is an asshole whatever color you paint it.

Japanese arrogantly believe it all belongs to them, which is why they're sooo reluctant to speak to anyone else, apart from locals whom they generally control and keep at arms length during a project.

But then again since technically the Philippines was U.S. soil after they kicked out the Spanish, and was still U.S. soil during the Japanese era up until just after the war. So techincally the treasure was all buried on American Soil. That is why the american powers see it as theirs.

Not to mention China, who I'm told a majority of the Treasure actually came from.

So it's all a bit of a conundrum really.

I'd just try and weave my way through the petty conflicts and political ambitions and try to find even just an ammo box of coins or a bar.

When we drop the flags and erase the borderlines, we are really all just one people after all. But so many obstacles have been designed to divide us and turn our attention away from the truth.

Proud to say I've had more good times than bad working with people out here, american and filipino, and many of those friendships are what I will always treasure.

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 04:42:03 AM »
there are 3 types of TH - The Hunter, The Finder and The Keeper.
Those who hunt don't always find and those who find don't always keep. Trick is to become all 3.

Really appreciate the reply. Great info and wisdom for sure. Thanks again.

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
  • Gender: Male
    • Southeast Asia Maritime Foundation
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 04:29:54 PM »
Yes but it would have been nice if Goldenwarrior mentioned if he's a Foreigner or a Filipino. I'm suspecting you're probably a Foreigner (most likely American).

Allow me to correct one thing though.. just because the USA kicked out the Spanish and had bases there in the Philippines doesn't actually make it U.S. soil. It's not a U.S. state. The U.S. doesn't own the land (or people). We were just protecting it - with the blessings of the Filipino people. I'm sure some Filipino's may get offended when they read how you described that there.

Anyway, happy hunting!

Offline Goldenwarrior72

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 10:06:44 AM »
I'm not so sure about that admin, I think the U.S. Insular Philippine Government constitutes as more than just a few military bases? the insular U.S. government in the Philippines was set up in 1901, and ended when the commonwealth was established in 1935, commonwealth status lasted for 10 years, designed to bring the country to independence in 1945,, but then the Japanese turned up and delayed everything, so I believe official independence was declared on July 4th 1946

Puerto Rico and Guam also had insular governments in this period.

Perhaps 'Soil' was not the best choice of words, but It was seen to be a U.S. territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_Government_of_the_Philippine_Islands

After all there was a war between U.S. and PH straight after the Spanish left. not to mention the USD10,000,000 U.S. paid to Spain in a French court for 'Damages' - I don't see it as the Filipinos giving their Blessings to the U.S. to stay, they wanted their independence. A once great kingdom of Maharlika, in the days before colonialists and conquistadors, a time when cities like Butuan, in Northern Mindanao, were known to all surrounding nations and traders as, 'The City of Gold'.

Let's face it U.S. has been known to be a Bully more than a Protector. A bit like Jack Palance in the movie Shane; throwing the pistol at the innocent sheep herders feet and forcing him to pick up to give justification for shooting him. So I doubt they really cared about having anyones blessing.

I'm not American, nor Filipino, not Japanese either. I would rather not disclose (since It won't make a difference) ;)

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 04:44:53 PM »
I'm not so sure about that admin, I think the U.S. Insular Philippine Government constitutes as more than just a few military bases? the insular U.S. government in the Philippines was set up in 1901, and ended when the commonwealth was established in 1935, commonwealth status lasted for 10 years, designed to bring the country to independence in 1945,, but then the Japanese turned up and delayed everything, so I believe official independence was declared on July 4th 1946

Puerto Rico and Guam also had insular governments in this period.

Perhaps 'Soil' was not the best choice of words, but It was seen to be a U.S. territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_Government_of_the_Philippine_Islands

After all there was a war between U.S. and PH straight after the Spanish left. not to mention the USD10,000,000 U.S. paid to Spain in a French court for 'Damages' - I don't see it as the Filipinos giving their Blessings to the U.S. to stay, they wanted their independence. A once great kingdom of Maharlika, in the days before colonialists and conquistadors, a time when cities like Butuan, in Northern Mindanao, were known to all surrounding nations and traders as, 'The City of Gold'.

Let's face it U.S. has been known to be a Bully more than a Protector. A bit like Jack Palance in the movie Shane; throwing the pistol at the innocent sheep herders feet and forcing him to pick up to give justification for shooting him. So I doubt they really cared about having anyones blessing.

I'm not American, nor Filipino, not Japanese either. I would rather not disclose (since It won't make a difference) ;)

I remember reading this concept of the great kingdom of Maharlika was actually just a fictitious story Marcos made up to explain how on earth he ended up with so many tons of gold bars in his possession. He said that some of the royal descendants of this "Kingdom of Gold" had paid him in gold bars to somehow revive the old kingdom. Is that not true? Where are you getting this information about Maharlika that you feel is so historically accurate? I'm not doubting it, just very curious.

I've always believed that these islands have a magical history that most of us probably wouldn't believe even if we heard it. My Filipino friend knew a contractor who was in the process of excavating the foundation for a shopping mall several years back. While digging they unearthed a giant skeleton 17 ft long. It went unreported because they didn't want any officials coming in to interfere with their project. But I believe it 100%. Then there are the legends of the "Giant Cemetery" near Samal etc. All of Southeast Asia used to be an absolutely fantastical wonderland. There is a mummified FAERY, yes a faery, in one of the Buddhist temples near Bangkok Thailand. You look at the thing, its a freaking faery man. No joke. How I wish I could close my eyes and see/experience those times.

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 05:05:59 PM »
Let's face it U.S. has been known to be a Bully more than a Protector.

I'm no historian but didn't we give the Philippines back to Filipinos? I was always under the impression that the Americans did not immediately return the islands back to Filipinos after the war with Spain because they simply were not ready to rule their own country or protect themselves from being conquered again. All the islands were split up in to different warring tribes and factions that by no means were naturally peaceful with each other. I mean, there are some obscure stories about things getting out of control at times during the American occupation but for the most part the Americans treated Filipinos very well. The American occupation was nothing at all like when Spain was here. Then during WW2 the Americans absolutely did save Filipinos and their land from the Japanese. No denying that. Then we literally gave them independence... The Americans certainly did not have to give the Philippine islands back to Filipinos, but they did. So I don't think its fair at all to label America a bully more than a protector, at least where the Philippines are concerned. Again, if it were not for the Americans, this would be JAPAN. So give some credit where its due my bro... Just saying ;)

Offline fom1113

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 08:44:16 PM »
Goldenwarrior72 i assume you are a chinese. If not a chinese let me ask you about china activities on spratly for almost 2 decades now? Isnt it bullying or plain greediness? For us Filipinos that spratly issue is the most extreme bullying that we ever experienced. Are those US interventions in spratly is an example of bullying of US? Hell no.
Failures made them perfect yet perfect are generous to make themselves masters of their knowledge!

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
  • Gender: Male
    • Southeast Asia Maritime Foundation
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2019, 09:16:59 PM »
Definitely bullying by the Chinese. They would claim the entire South China Sea if it were up to them. And the funny thing is.. your President (Dutarte) is EMBRACING them!! I really don't understand him at all. Why embrace someone who is clearly encroaching onto your land and moving into your back yard like that???
TW

Goldenwarrior72 i assume you are a chinese. If not a chinese let me ask you about china activities on spratly for almost 2 decades now? Isnt it bullying or plain greediness? For us Filipinos that spratly issue is the most extreme bullying that we ever experienced. Are those US interventions in spratly is an example of bullying of US? Hell no.

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2019, 09:30:21 PM »
Definitely bullying by the Chinese. They would claim the entire South China Sea if it were up to them. And the funny thing is.. your President (Dutarte) is EMBRACING them!! I really don't understand him at all. Why embrace someone who is clearly encroaching onto your land and moving into your back yard like that???
TW


I won't openly insult Duterte here because I know many Filipinos love the guy. In a way I understand why they love him. I also know that you may as well throw in towel trying to convince them to do otherwise. I think it has to do with the fact that he appears to be a tough guy who really stands up for the every day Filipino. That's fine... One thing is clear. China would be all over the Philippines dominating every aspect of Filipino life at this very moment if the U.S. was not standing in their way. That's a fact. And yes I agree he is really bending over for China these days in a major way. Did you see the news recently? It was like one day China was driving away Filipino fisherman from their own territory and stealing giant clams that had literally been seeded there by Filipinos, the next day Duterte flies to China to sign infrastructure deals. I mean WTF man? Then a Marcos gets voted in to the senate... I also don't understand any of it at all. But I still love the Philippines and Filipino people so don't get me wrong folks.

Offline fom1113

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2019, 12:51:31 AM »
 Okay, i know what you mean. You really like the style of Noynoy aquino then. He protested and spread the news everywhere including international news then after that, china planted some lies on banana virus blah blah being exported to them forcing almost all banana exporter to throw their bananas everywhere, i have seen the news about some truckloads of bananas were thrown beside a highway to limit losses on fuel. Its not only about bananas coz some other products were not allowed to be exported to china. Chinese navy pirates confiscated all fishes from every fishermen they caught, destroying all the corals with their nature killing ships. I know that's really good for you but not for us ordinary filipinos, working class and filipino businessmen. Digong is really a loveing coward unlike Noynoy who fights like a superhero from beginning to end. May i ask you. Did noynoy win for his effort? Oh i think so because china get scared of noynoy's notoriety. Look china is already so generous to Philippines, they already gave up the spratly. Right?

Lesson: If you are not capable to fight an opponent just run away or you may get mauled. A karate novice who fights a black belter is absolutely an IDIOT!

I voted for Noynoy but later on became so disappointed. This guy knows nothing about diplomacy. LOL
Failures made them perfect yet perfect are generous to make themselves masters of their knowledge!

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2019, 01:31:47 AM »
Lesson: If you are not capable to fight an opponent just run away or you may get mauled. A karate novice who fights a black belter is absolutely an IDIOT!

I understand buddy and listen we really don't disagree but I have to say, your president has way too much pride about things.. Maybe because he got deported from the U.S. that time or maybe he had some conflicts with the CIA so now he hates America, who knows.. I heard him say what you said also "They want me to fight China. It would be a total massacre.".. Understandable.. But time has come for him to swallow his pride, forget about some small differences he may have had with a small number of Americans in the past and start really building the already strong relationship between the two countries. He wants to appear to be the macho man who doesn't need America's help. But everyone needs help from time to time.. There's no shame in it. I mean, we are talking about CHINA here.. So no one is going to look down on the Philippines for accepting the help of America.

If we were talking about a street fight where the weaker person would have nothing to lose by tucking tail and running away then I would agree with you 100%.. But that's not at all what we're talking about here bro... We are talking about the sovereignty of the Philippines. Soil that belongs to FILIPINOS. That is something that you, as Filipinos, simply can not run away from. You must stand up and fight until basically either you win or you get beaten in to a pulp because frankly nothing else matters. This is your country, your land, your people. You have options. The U.S.A. has your back.

Offline fom1113

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2019, 02:10:45 AM »
 He hates America? Oh man. That guy is so humorous talkative. I don't know if it is his tactics or whatever. Look, did you hear him complains about the presence of US back and forth to Subic, submarines, frigates and even news reporters spotted an American spy plane Poseidon roaming around the Marawi skies during the ISIS war not to mention the US marines stationed in Mindanao were observing the war. Did you hear him complaining against US? The Philippine Navy collaborated to US Navy aircraft carrier patrols in South China sea, did you hear any news of Duterte protest in any US interventions? If he hates America he will never ever talk to Trump when he was newly elected. He even admitted that he likes the policy of trump. If someone hates America he will hate all americans. Open your eyes.

Please stick to TH guys. I hate this kind of topic.
Failures made them perfect yet perfect are generous to make themselves masters of their knowledge!

tninja

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Treasure Hunters
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2019, 02:14:11 AM »
He hates America? Oh man. That guy is so humorous talkative. I don't know if it is his tactics or whatever. Look, did you hear him complains about the presence of US back and forth to Subic, submarines, frigates and even news reporters spotted an American spy plane Poseidon roaming around the Marawi skies during the ISIS war not to mention the US marines stationed in Mindanao were observing the war. Did you hear him complaining against US? The Philippine Navy collaborated to US Navy aircraft carrier patrols in South China sea, did you hear any news of Duterte protest in any US interventions? If he hates America he will never ever talk to Trump when he was newly elected. He even admitted that he likes the policy of trump. If someone hates America he will hate all americans. Open your eyes.

Please stick to TH guys. I hate this kind of topic.

No worries... I'll just give you the last word. Thanks for chiming in