The Southeast Asian Treasure Connection
YAMASHITA'S / WW2 TREASURE => General Yamashita's Treasure Questions & Info => Topic started by: spica82 on June 27, 2010, 08:48:18 PM
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hi.would like to ask if any of you guys have any ideas or suggestions on how to break a hard concrete cement? i think it measures 2x2x3 meters.tnx so much!
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Hi Spica82,
i have read quite a lot of suggestions on breaking a hard concrete cement in this forum...Just try to browse and explore the posts and you will surely come accross the topic... :)
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Spica82,
If you are trying to break that concrete expecting to find something inside, it would be much easier if you know somebody that you can trust and has a good metal detector and have it checked first before going to all that trouble of breaking it. It has happened before, people went to all that trouble breaking a cement vault expecting something inside only to find out there was nothing inside . Just my two cents worth.
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hi.yes we already checked it using a metal detector and after checking it, we then decided to break it for us to really see what's inside...do you think it's good?i mean in your own treasure hunter instincts,etc... ;D
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spica82,
breaking a suspected t.cement vault is as surprising as winning a lottery at least ;D , if and only if, it its really a cemented t.vault. you can check it with metal detector, if it yields positive in metal presence, you have 50% of chance, if your metal detector has descrimination that can tell if its ferrous or non-ferrous, you got a higher percentage of hitting a t. but beware that this confirmation makes commotion, the adrenalin rush that makes our normal decision blocked by greed and wild dreams. there are few who succeed in ripping the harvest as a group because of humility. but seldom ends in one persons victory due to greed.
so be careful on that cement vault. if you are willing to give away your share to those who becomes greedy, then you can go breaking that vault....Peace!
ps....can u post a picture of you vault...
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hi.would like to ask if any of you guys have any ideas or suggestions on how to break a hard concrete cement? i think it measures 2x2x3 meters.tnx so much!
Spica82 very nice found :) :) but can you post some photos of that concrete cement vault, for me much better you post some photos and I'm sure many of the members will give you an opinion of what will you going to do of that concrete cement vault. :) :) :)
Good luck..... :) :) :)
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Spica82,
What happened now to your concrete cement vault?
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even if its a japanese made concrete vault, not all of them has treasure inside it. in fact many doesn't contain treasure. it could just be a decoy or just plain concrete. so the best thing to do before you waste your time and effort to break it is to use a metal detector that can discriminate ferrous and non-ferrous metals. do not use the stick type detector/locator.
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hi again, is it possible that the treasure vault consists of mix cement and pebbles?tnx! :) :)
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hi spica if you are near in davao maybe our group can help you if your cement vault was really made by japs. by the way how did you found that vault? any marker near to that cement vault?
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how do we know if a certain cement was made by the japanese?
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how do we know if a certain was made by the japanese?
simple...ask the japanese soldier who make it. ;D ;D ;D joke
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Check if there's "Made in Japan " carve on it.....
joke... joke... joke.. ;D
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how do we know if a certain cement was made by the japanese?
Superman, was there anyone else who was making those?
TW
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During the war (on or before), the cement which was used by japs are white in color and consists mostly of lime or apog. Since there was no CHB during those days, they used to pour it with a mixture of gravel only and a few sands. You will also notice the kind of steel bars they were using are not corrugated and the most common size is as big as our thumb. I encounted such in Baguio City where there are so many japs unused septic tank. Hard to break because in Baguio the Japs used granite (marmol) as gravel to strengthened the concrete.
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Jin, CHB are already existing before the war. Check the old portion of the Parliamentary building (along Luneta), it is made of 6" thick CHB wall and the bars are already corrugated but the 1" bar and other bigger bars are square in shape. It is the most efficient shape when it comes to strength and bar deflection.
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:) yes i agree they used square corrugated bars too in those days the cement was tougher then too
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Guys, how many of you have seen the movie "THE REAL McCOY"? Get some idea in there how to break that concrete vault
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Guys, how many of you have seen the movie "THE REAL McCOY"? Get some idea in there how to break that concrete vault
Ghost, what's that movie all about and where can we find it at?
TW
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I have seen the Rock song of Mccoy StoneSour but not a movie ghost ::) ::) ::)
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TW, Raquel,
That movie was in the late 80's or early 90's I think long before I was involved in TH activities. The story is how this young lady breaks bank vaults. Bank vaults is much harder to break than cement vaults.
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it is the question in HOW TO BREAK THE CEMENT not IS THAT A REAL TREASURE VAULT..so please answer it directly... ;)
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kinnoyori,
Browse and read the other boards bro, it is stated there what is the simplest way to break it. Like TH, you have to have patience in searching through. If you have money, then buy the chemical one and it all stated in that same board. Hope you can find it my friend. God bless.
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will the simple muriatic acid be useful in breaking the vault???
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hi guys,
what do you think of this? is this a cement or just an ordinary rock?tnx! ;D
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The 3rd picture looks like a cross section of a cement mortar
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Cement, you can see the aggregate and silica in it
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The 3rd picture looks like a cross section of a cement mortar
Sounds familiar.... ;D
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hi guys,
what do you think of this? is this a cement or just an ordinary rock?tnx! ;D
spica just drop a little muriatic acid to your suspected cement if it will bubbles then it is a cement but if no reaction then it is a rock....
rough cement difinitely no item inside but if opposite to rough and you even see yourself in cement vault then its worth to pulverized that cement...
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Cement Mortar is the mixture of cement silica (Portland type), sand and gravel. Some even add with it some additives like "apog" that when the mortar was submerged in water after 11 hours, it can turn into a very strong cement mortar after the mandatory 27 days curing period (of course we also consider the "water-cement ratio". A lesser water, the stronger it is). As a fact, when I was still in the construction business, we use to prepare beam samples for the DPWH inspection with some "additives" in it and after the 27 days curing, it really stand to the specifications of Class A mixture (1:2:6 but DPWH says that we use the 1:2:5 because we are using round river stone instead of the crashed boulders). Cement mortar/filler is also what you call the filler for CHB holes. Here is the catch, as proven by experiments, a mortar when totally submerged into fresh water, it does not enhanced the curing period but it slowly build the strength over a long period and could GREATLY surpass the strength under the Philippine Building Code due to the absence of heat, therefore that explains the superstrength character we encounter in the cement vault we find. Imagine the "curing period" under water for 65 years, so what do we expect?
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Cement Mortar is the mixture of cement silica (Portland type), sand and gravel. Some even add with it some additives like "apog" that when the mortar was submerged in water after 11 hours, it can turn into a very strong cement mortar after the mandatory 27 days curing period (of course we also consider the "water-cement ratio". A lesser water, the stronger it is). As a fact, when I was still in the construction business, we use to prepare beam samples for the DPWH inspection with some "additives" in it and after the 27 days curing, it really stand to the specifications of Class A mixture (1:2:6 but DPWH says that we use the 1:2:5 because we are using round river stone instead of the crashed boulders). Cement mortar/filler is also what you call the filler for CHB holes. Here is the catch, as proven by experiments, a mortar when totally submerged into fresh water, it does not enhanced the curing period but it slowly build the strength over a long period and could GREATLY surpass the strength under the Philippine Building Code due to the absence of heat, therefore that explains the superstrength character we encounter in the cement vault we find. Imagine the "curing period" under water for 65 years, so what do we expect?
Yes Dindo, I am 100% agree with your explanations about cement mortars. It contains apog. Even heat cannot easily break it. The best way to break it by means of using drill 3/4 inch drill bit, 6 inches apart and depth up to 12 inches. Then use round chisel bigger than the drill bit hole. Then smash them simultaneously. That's one the best way to break cement vault.
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"Apog" is a base powder that when a litmus paper is put on it, it turns to blue or green. However, this additive is suspected to cause the silica into a high quality called "early strength cement" with very high compression strength.
So one principle in breaking the compression strength of a cement is to subject it to equal but opposite strength. That is, put the said cement into a tensile stress. Anyone can study how to enhance the previous illustrations from Angel09.
Trivia:
In the coastal town, "apog" is one of the most sought powder by the Dumagats for their personal consumption. When combined with a leaf (gawed) and a fruit (buwa), it causes the floor or street pavement into spots of "red". Sometimes they also add just a portion of a leaf of Eucaliptus tree to give it a mentholated taste.
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Apog is a base chemical that when a litmus paper is put on it, it turns to blue or green. However, this additive is suspected to cause the silica into a high quality called "early strength cement" with very high compression strength.
So one principle in breaking the compression strength of a cement is to subject it to equal but opposite strength. That is, put the said cement into a tensile stress. Anyone can study how to enhance the previous illustrations from Angel09.
Ram head may do the tensile stress. I just don't know how to draw in the computer. I will download a software that can do the job. Can somebody help me where to download any drawing software?
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Hello everyone...Interesting topic regarding cement...The Japanese can also make a "stone" which resembles, or is similar to the stones/rocks around right? They were able to make markers by using the same materials in the area, mold them into shapes to make the markers...Did they mix "apog" too to mold the shapes? I have seen circles of stones which are obviously molded but the interesting part is that the material is totally similar to the rock materials around where we found the circles...I am wondering what was the bonding chemical...
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Commando,
I wud agree with you on the way to break that cement. Ok, so you drill
with 3/4" drill bit. Will a regular type drill drill work or do you need some type
of special drill or high speed drill?
And these 3/4" drill bits. The cement is very hard. Not sure regular masonary
type drill will work. Do you need a diamond drill bit? Where can you buy them
here if that is what you need?
Joe uses "round bar mating." Still waiting for his reply.
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Blue bamboo
You will need a diamond drill to ensure penetrations. You can purchase that in Diamond hardware if you are in Davao city. It will cost around 120,000.00 with electric drill.
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A Regular Drill is not gonna do it , low speed or high speed, try using a Hammer Drill instead and even with a carbide tip drill bit will do it. Take it for what it is worth.
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Guys,
There are many types of drill ok. Buy the drill with jack hammer or dual function. Diamond tip, tungsten or tungsten carbide will do the work. JUST, just dont over heat the blade and armature coz that hard cement will not break/drilled easily. Do it on a stagard basis 10 min at a time adding water on the drill bit when its running to avoid easy "pudpud" and break up of blades'. Try it
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now all this sounds "expensive", any cheaper ways to do it..?
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the cheaper thing to do is put a dozen of unused tire then burned it with fire after that pour it with vinegar then finish ;D ;D ;D ; joke ;D ;D ;D
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Yes burning it is still the cheapest way to do, but that depends on the location of the vault. What if the vault located 30ft+ in your hole and water is everywhere ;D gee there is always another option to do it. how about blowing it with dynamite he he he :D but thats dangerous ???
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If you have to blow that cement, use only the so called "suman" just to chip off portions of the cement and not blow the whole thing. If it is inside the hole, blowing it is not advisable because the minimum effect it will cause is the loosening of the soil, if it does not surely cause a cave in.
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If you have to blow that cement, use only the so called "suman" just to chip off portions of the cement and not blow the whole thing. If it is inside the hole, blowing it is not advisable because the lesser it will cause is the loosening of the soil, if it does not surely cause a cave in.
Did somebody said THERMITE awhile back, among other things?
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In the other forum, a member described how to make a thermite blaster. Such is use to clear a cave or an old existing hole free from snakes, rodent, etc. living inside. Plus if there is an exposed unexploded bomb within, it can blast it but with lesser impact, as explained by a former batchmate now in the FEU.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2081916_make-thermite.html
http://how2dostuff.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-to-make-thermite.html
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i have heard from our fellow TH that they uses laser to break hard cement,is anybody experience this already? how it works?
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Laser,,,that sounds more expensive and may not be feasible in the country likely if the site is in a very remote location..otherwise carry that concrete slab (by lorry) in your own working shop and do the zapping! :o
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Trivia: LASER means LIGHT AMPLIFICATION SIMULATION EMISSION of RADIATION. From where you derive the immense supply of electricity to do the laser thing when you are in the mountain? LASER needs tremendous amount of energy to operate. I think you got the point. ;D ;D ;D
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Better to use "jack hammer" for Demolition type. Lately we bought one a 1,200 Watts electric jack hammer for demolition type. Even a very hard concrete like steel we can penetrate.
Thanks,
Cliff
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how much the price of the electric hammer you bought?
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1,200 watts electric jack hammer demolition type price is 31,000. usually you can find it in a large hardware store. higher wattage is much better for greater impact in hard concrete.
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hi.would like to ask if any of you guys have any ideas or suggestions on how to break a hard concrete cement? i think it measures 2x2x3 meters.tnx so much!
sir,,,
try to find the entrance of that concrete vault.... or the code/marker....
tc..
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much better if this jack hammer could be driven out of the power by genset,since in most treasure sites has no presence of electricity.
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yup ur right!
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Brothers,
Then, we need a truck tower for the equipment (Genset)...:)
Ang gastos mag TH ano?? (THunting is expensive).. LOL
Regards to all
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yes very expensive,but only those accidental hitters with little money draining out from their pockets...
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It's not just like a picnic in the park. Planning and true research might be considered at all times. ;D
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Guys either you take heed on this or not but here's something to that question,
Japanese made concrete intended for use to hold, contain or hide loot, contains seashells in the mixing.
Try chipping first before cracking and see if there were mixture of the said sort.
This is usually the case but not generally though.
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yes very expensive,but only those accidental hitters with little money draining out from their pockets...
In other words, they're just so lucky indeed... :D :D :D
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Guys either you take heed on this or not but here's something to that question,
Japanese made concrete intended for use to hold, contain or hide loot, contains seashells in the mixing.
Try chipping first before cracking and see if there were mixture of the said sort.
This is usually the case but not generally though.
Bro Kizuna,
Did the purpose of mixing concrete with seashells for the Vault, does it makes the vault more durable? or should it possibly be becoming brittle and easy to break? Or just a distinguishing mark that the said vault are being made by the looters...? Just a query...
Best regards,
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Shells are strong alternative to crushed rocks and its abundant near the seashores,,This are widely used at least 15-30 kms away from the ocean...But learn how to differentiate from petrified shells to disturbed shells(human interference)...similarity almost makes it difficult to identify as in some cases,,ACID may not work at all! Burned clay mixed with shells are even used and strong enough to hold load similar to a pottery making process!! Remember that during the war,,scarcity of cement products were all over the country...But they always have good alternatives...
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There you got it friends, and that is absolutely right, Brother Gener detailed it...
In fact we found cooked clay in most of our diggings, got to look in my files to show you more proofs in support of what Bro. Gener emphasized.
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This is just like how the Spaniards built those old churches, baked clay (brick) and burned shells as their mortar. Hard to imagine but those old churches are still standing to these day. How much more if those shells were mixed with the clay before baking, produces more harder and durable brick.
Trivia: The 'Golden Brick' of China much more the same as those with in the Forbidden Palace is priced as gold since it stands centuries of use and still look like new. This brick was only reserved for the Emperor on that time. (National Geographic)
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Sir Gener, Bro Kizuna,
Thank you for another inputs to us newbies...
Best regards,
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Guys either you take heed on this or not but here's something to that question,
Japanese made concrete intended for use to hold, contain or hide loot, contains seashells in the mixing.
Try chipping first before cracking and see if there were mixture of the said sort.
This is usually the case but not generally though.
mam,, kizuna,
how many ft the thickness of contains with seashells? is this the treasure room?? one of my friends site has that kind of constructions?
tnx..
TC..
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although this thread has been sleeping for quite some time, i want to add something.
what about using a plasma cutter?
like this one: http://www.multiplaz.com/about (http://www.multiplaz.com/about)
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although this thread has been sleeping for quite some time, i want to add something.
what about using a plasma cutter?
like this one: http://www.multiplaz.com/about (http://www.multiplaz.com/about)
That is one good and portable equipment and be ready to shell out $1995 plus shipping.
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although this thread has been sleeping for quite some time, i want to add something.
what about using a plasma cutter?
like this one: http://www.multiplaz.com/about (http://www.multiplaz.com/about)
That is one good and portable equipment and be ready to shell out $1995 plus shipping.
yes sir, if one can spend a big sum on detector/scanner, what is 80,000 anyway? :)
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although this thread has been sleeping for quite some time, i want to add something.
what about using a plasma cutter?
like this one: http://www.multiplaz.com/about (http://www.multiplaz.com/about)
That is one good and portable equipment and be ready to shell out $1995 plus shipping.
yes sir, if one can spend a big sum on detector/scanner, what is 80,000 anyway? :)
Yep, only problem is, people keep breaking concrete vaults as they claim it to be only to find nothing inside that said concrete vaults. Now, if one has a good scanner, maybe it can provide firsthand information if there really is something inside that said vault before even spending rigorous hours and lots of sweat trying to break it. If you ask me, I will be spending my money first on a Good Scanner before I spend 2,000 bucks on something that would break cement, but on the other hand, if one has that equipment, he can set up a welding shop and he has a livelihood.
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better off to gather woods or used tires and cover it on the stone you suspect..after how many hours of burning and chewing momma..flush a pail of water on the rock..I tried that and its effective..luckily the stone contains nothing.. >:(
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I hope aside from the talking about ways of breaking a suspected concrete vault, a photo of someone's previous find involving concrete vault appears in this thread.
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will hydrochloric or sulfuric acid work? What about dexpan?